Terrible, Thanks for Asking

Just Like Us - Transcript

This is a transcript of a “Terrible, Thanks for Asking” episode entitled “Just Like Us” The text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future for accuracy.

Listen to the episode here.

Production note: After we recorded and mixed this episode, Busy announced on her podcast that her child Birdie uses they/them pronouns.

Busy Philipps: It was the first time that I had ever heard someone articulate the thing that they responded to in me that I was like, “Oh, my God. That's right. I am. That's a- I have a weird energy. I'm a weird person.”

There’s a thing in tabloid magazines — I can’t remember which one, and I’m frankly too lazy to Google it — that shows pictures of famous people doing regular-people things. It’ll be Julia Roberts tying her shoe, or Ben Affleck with Starbucks (sometimes Dunkin), and the headline will be like STARS ARE JUST LIKE US! THEY HAVE SHOELACES! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT! HOLY CRAP, THEY HAVE SWEAT GLANDS! FINGERNAILS! CAN YOU IMAGINE THEY TOO WEAR PANTS!

By the way, I love this part of the magazine, fully understand the novelty. When someone exists mostly on your TV or a movie screen or in the little rectangle in your pocket, it feels like they live on another plane of existence altogether. So seeing a famous person just be a person? Oh wow. It is a turn of the kaleidoscope. I once saw Kim Cattrall on a Delta flight. Blew my mind. Blew. my. mind.

The voice you heard at the top of this episode — that weird person? — that was the actor Busy Philipps. The author Busy Philipps. The host and producer and writer Busy Philipps. The Instagram star Busy Philipps. The multi-multi-hyphenate Busy Philipps, whose weirdness is what has always made her one of those stars that does feel like us. 

Busy: As a kid, I was weird. Like, a lot of times too loud, a lot of times, like, ostracized from my friends and kind of missing the thing when I was like a little kid. But in spite of that, I was just very confident in myself and my abilities and I guess confident in my weirdness. I was really trying to make sense of everything. I was really trying to figure out the confusion that I felt in my home. I was really trying to figure out why school was so hard for me, why I couldn't pay attention, why my friends kick me out of their little circles and...

Nora: Tell me about a moment when you're growing up or when you're little, when you know what it is that you want to do with your life?

Busy: I mean... I don't know, sort of like romantically in retrospect, I always felt that I was born for the stage. And then I felt when I started doing the school plays and then summer programs and theater stuff, I felt like oh, this is actually where being “too much” is… it is the perfect application. There's a bunch of weirdos, you know, like me, and we all are too much or too annoying and too loud. And we, you know, are singing like “Amazing Grace” to you, like at the top of our lungs for attention or whatever. And that's where I felt, always, like I could exist. 

Even when you find your place, where you can be exactly yourself, you don’t get to exist solely in that space. Busy found her calling when she was young, but she also, like pretty much everyone else, had to go to middle school and high school, which stinks.

Busy: You start off, and you have no access to anyone except for like a very select little pool of humans. And you're just, you know, at the mercy of whoever they are and their parents are and whatever. 

These are ages that are not good for all of us. And they were hard for Busy. They were traumatic. A boyfriend raped her when she was just 14. She had an abortion and was shamed by the boy’s parents like she just… impregnated herself? 

And still — still — she stayed driven to get out of Scottsdale, Arizona and into the world she wanted to inhabit. A world where she was a working actor. A professional. 

Busy: My mom just was like... whenever I was going through it, being weird, not fitting in, you know, when I was in high school and I was going through my own sort of traumas and very dramatic times, my mom just always was, like, very steadfast in her, like, “There are great things out there for you. I know it. You just, you have to get out there. You will get out there. You will find them. They will find you.” 

Busy’s parents knew she was driven — and they also were not the kind of parents who were going to quit their jobs and move to New York or L.A. and become stage parents. They encouraged her, and they put guardrails on her ambition.

Busy: I always am just fascinated by how people get to where they are and all of the things that lead up to like even that drive. I mean, my mother had always said, “I really think you need to finish at least two years of college before you become a professional actor.” This was just like the thing that she always said, you know, college is very important to my parents.

Nora: But just half of it. Just the first half. [laughs]

Busy: [laughs] I don't even understand why that distin- I mean, it was so arbitrary in retrospect. But it was just like a thing that was in my head for so long. But I think that that drive was so strong in me because of sort of, like, the trauma that I went through in my high school years. There is a part of me that was like I have always been determined. I've always been this way. I'm sure I was born this way. 

There's another part of me that's like... I continued to be determined in a very specific way about being successful as soon as I could, simply because I wanted to fucking, like, show them, you know? I wanted to prove it to them and have all of these things that were really traumatic that I, like, for me personally, that I went through my teen years, like in my head, it was like, “the only way this will make sense is if on the other side of this there is like the exact dream that I want achieved and those motherfuckers who gave me such a hard time and who mistreated me as a woman, and a person will regret it for the rest of their fucking lives.” That was it. I was just driven by that.

I love revenge success. I love when somebody says it out loud. I am beaming at my computer screen as she says this, just shooting love lasers out of my eyes.

So, Busy makes it. She reads for the TV show “Freaks and Geeks” her sophomore year of college and leaves before her junior year begins to start filming. It’s years later, watching the DVD collection, when she hears Judd Apatow, the show’s creator, describe her audition.

Busy: Judd was like, “Yeah, we had this new character, Kim Kelly. And Busy came in and read for Lindsay, and she just had such a weird energy. We had to figure out maybe she's this girl, maybe she's Kim Kelly.” And it was the first time that I had ever heard someone articulate the thing that they responded to in me that I was like, “Oh, my God. That's right. I am. That's a- I have a weird energy. I'm a weird person.”

Weird is not an insult, it’s a compliment. Busy’s weirdness is her superpower. What her mom whispered to her when she was a kid struggling with trying to fit in, with trying to live a dream that was a little too big for the other kids around her, it was true. She did find her place and her people. 

I’ve seen enough movies to know that superpowers can disappear. Sometimes immediately and violently. Sometimes slowly by an equally powerful counterforce.

And when we come back, Busy is going to lose her superpower.

We’re back, and Busy Philipps is a steadily working actor who has made her dreams come true. “Freaks and Geeks” leads to other things, like “Undeclared” and “Dawson’s Creek,” and in 2004, she’s in Vancouver shooting the movie “White Chicks.”

She and her boyfriend are hanging out, and there’s a lot of men’s figure skating on TV. They came up with an idea for a comedy about the cutthroat world of men’s figure skating. In her book, Busy talks about outlining the story and writing the first draft with her boyfriend and his brother, and even writing a role for herself.

But she finds out that when the script was submitted, her name wasn’t even on it.

It was like she hadn’t had the idea, like she wasn’t a part of it. But she was.

Busy: I had essentially had like an intellectual idea taken away from me, and then they gaslit me and told me, you know, I essentially did nothing and had nothing to do with it.

There’s a play from 1938 called “Gaslight.” In it, a husband manipulates his wife into thinking she’s going bonkers by fiddling with the gas lights in their home. When she says, “the lights are flickering,” he says “no, they’re not,” and she starts to doubt her own reality, thoughts, sanity... 

We use that word as a verb now. Gaslighting. It makes you feel like you’re making it all up. It chips away at your sense of self. 

Busy: I had just been really struggling and then I met Mark, and we went out on a date and like just... I don't know how to explain it, except that I just knew that I was, like, going to get married to him and have his children. Like, I think that that is the best explanation of, like, love at first sight, is that there must be something where it's like spiritually or biologically or whatever where you're like, “I am having children with this person. I'm like building a home with this person. You know? I was calling him my fiance before we went on our first date, like around the house to my roommate Emily. And she was calling him my fiance. She's like, “Oooh is your fiance going to pick you up? Where are you guys going?”

But anyway, so we dated. And, you know, he's nine years older than me. And he was just at that point in his life where all of his friends were getting married. Right? I was not at that point at all. Nowhere near that point. None of my friends were even in serious relationships. And I… but I like had been a professional actor for at this point, like, I don't know, almost 10 years, I guess? And I just was like, yeah, what's... I guess I get married now and like have kids you know? And so we dated, and we got married on essentially like our two-year dating anniversary. And then the writers' strike was happening in L.A. and I was like, I'm not on a TV show. There is not going to be a pilot season. This writers' strike was like a big deal in 2007. I was like, “Should I just, like, go off the pill and should we just have a baby?” [laughs] Like… really well thought out situation. And he was like, well, yeah, let's... I don't know, for sure, why not. 

Nora: Calendar's clear. 

Busy: I mean, when I tell you I was pregnant, like before we even did it. Like I was pregnant immediately. 

It was a tough time. The writer's strike was tough. There was like a lot that was going on. It was tough. I had this baby. Mark was working a lot. He actually left me at Cedars to go have a meeting with Vince Vaughn. I'll never forgive you, Vince Vaughn, first of all, for being a fucking Republican, but secondly, for making my husband leave Cedars.

Nora: You know what I'm not going to forgive him for? I'm not going to forgive him for “Old School,” because that is every- everybody I dated for a good five-year period, their personality was, “I memorized ‘Old School.’”

Busy and Marc name their baby Birdie. And of course Busy is happy to have a baby. Of course she loves her. And also… motherhood is HARD. There is no on-ramp. One day you’re just a MOM… a whole new identity that was born along with that baby.

The psychiatrist Alexandra Sacks did a TED talk and is the leading expert on this transition a person goes through when they become a mother. It’s called matresence — yes, that sounds a lot like adolescence, because it kind of is. It’s a seismic life shift that changes our body, our hormones and our lives and the way we fit into the world. Children become the center of our world even though there is SO MUCH ELSE TO US! 

It is a lonely experience, because it is so rarely discussed publicly. 

Busy: I had a really hard time in the beginning of my motherhood. I felt really alone. You know, internet didn't exist at all by the way. And Mark was sort of like way outside of his comfort zone in terms of all of this. And I just was miserable. I was just fucking miserable, and I was like, “I just need to get a job. And then I can have money. And then I'll just get a divorce. I'll just be by myself and they’ll be fine.” And I got “Cougar Town,” and then I was like, “Well, OK, this is all right. I guess I can stick this out for a bit longer.”

And the thing about work that's great is that if you're feeling any kind of way about your personal life, but you have a ton of work, you don't really have to deal with it, because you can just go to work and then… and that just continues on for years and years at a time. 

It’s a good system for a lot of people, at least for awhile. The thing about kicking the can down the road is that eventually you run out of road. Eventually, the show Busy was on was going to end. 

Busy: I was just sort of like, “I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do.” I was like my whole life basically, it was like doing that show and being Birdie's mom and then, oh, we had Cricket. Cricket comes along. She's like a fucking unicorn. She was born the sweetest, happiest unicorn child. And then, yeah, and then “Cougar Town” ends and I was just like miserable, I was fucking miserable. I was so unhappy, and I felt so alone still all these years, so isolated. And I had, like, paid for help, and I had, like, done all of the things that you're supposed to do. And I kind of just thought, this is what life is.

Busy: I got exactly what I said I was going to get, and I still have this hole in my soul. I still feel this really, really deep pain about these things that I've tried to fill with this other thing that I thought was going to fill it. And I think that's the trap of that motivation. It's a great driving force, and it gives you such a push up the mountain. But I do think, you know, when you get to whatever the point is that you were like, well, this is, yeah, I'll fucking show them, you have to realize that it's never going to be the thing that you want — except when it is sometimes, and then it's deeply satisfying.

We’ll be right back.

We’re back, and Busy Philipps has everything she wanted when she was a kid. But it doesn’t feel the way she thought it would. Motherhood is wonderful AND hard and isolating. MARRIAGE is hard, even when you love each other.

Busy: Marc’s like a wonderful person. But he's also a little bit like... if he thinks that things should be done a way, it's like that's the way it should be done. What I allowed it to do to me was if I ever was trying to, like, collaborate creatively with him or talk to him about an idea that I had or whatever, he was just like, “Yeah, that doesn't make sense because blah blah blah.” And I would take it as “OK. I'm just not going to- you're right. I don't know what I'm…” You know, like I would like to kind of fight in my brain against it, but ultimately, I would just go sink back to the sunken place. I would just, like, go back to the place where I was like, “You're right. Like, I'm the- I don't know what I... what business I have being interesting or creative or weird…”

It feels a lot like what happened with “Blades of Glory,” which had chipped away at her confidence in her ideas and abilities. What happens when you start to believe that what other people think of you or say about you is THE truth is that you just cannot remember what is REALLY TRUE about yourself. Other people’s opinions can turn into a funhouse mirror, and those are NOT FUN! Not literally, and not mentally.

Busy: I had really, like, lost sight of myself and my- and the thing that made me good. I had lost sight of my superpower. I couldn't even find it. I didn't know where it was. And I was really, really, really deeply unhappy. And I started working with a friend of mine who was a dude and like all of a sudden, like, my ideas were validated, like it was just that thing when you're like, “Oh, wait, what? I'm- this is weird. I… what is this? This person thinks I'm funny and interesting and my ideas are good?”

Her ideas are good, and being noticed is good. Being seen is good. Being around this man who sees her and her ideas feels really good. And while she’s toeing the line of an emotional affair, there’s another way for her to escape. A way that most of us are very familiar with. A way that gives us dopamine with every scroll of the thumb.


Instagram had just launched a feature called stories… a way for them to, I think, just recoup our attention from Snapchat by letting users basically do what you do on Snapchat: create short video clips that stay up for 24 hours and then disappear. 

Most of us saw this feature at first and were like, “Ugh, my god, what am I gonna do with this? I already don’t like Snapchat and now I have to not like it in a new app?”

But not Busy. She likes that it’s all in the same app, an app she already likes and already uses. So she posts a story right away, that first day. And then another and another. They all start pretty much the same way:

Busy: “Hey, guys…”

I was really, like lonely at night, like Mark and I weren't really… we were in a really bad place. We weren't even talking. You know, we weren't hanging out. And I started just doing those stories and turned it on at night just to be like, is anyone out there, you know? And I started talking to... I don't know who, whatever, whoever was there and talking about my day and sharing things and I don't know. And in that the response from that then started to be a thing. 

And I will say for in, in some ways, for some people, I know that, like I heard from early on, like other actor friends of mine, “What are you doing? Like, what is that? Why are you doing that? You know? I don't feel like that- feel like that's tricky. You might… people might not want to hire you, like, because you're putting yourself out there in this way that's like, it's like a reality show.” 

And I was like, yeah, things can be fine. And also I don't give a fuck. Like I had just reached a point where I did not care. And it was clear to me that it became a thing because like every week, my Instagram stories were ending up like as press.

Nora: Yes!

Busy: On different, like, celebrity, you know, websites or People.com or US Weekly or Daily Mail. I was just like, I don't know, I like it. I’m doing it.

People are getting something from it. A sample of headlines from this time include:

Cosmopolitan, April 2017: I’m addicted to Busy Philipps’ Instagram Stories and You Should Be, Too.

Vanity Fair, April 2017: Busy Philipps Takes Full Advantage of Social Media — and has no shame about it.

Should there be shame, by the way?

The Cut, April 2017 — Busy Philipps Gets Real About Instagram Sponsorships

Glamour, April 2017: Busy Philipps Describes Escaping a Creepy Uber Ride in 8-Minute Instagram Story. 

In this one, Busy and Marc jump out of an Uber ride when there’s another anonymous passenger in the back (when they had not ordered an Uber pool), and she tells her viewers that looking out for your safety is more important than not being rude. We agree.

So yeah! People ARE getting something out of this. Hundreds of thousands of people are watching what she says and does in front of her phone every day. 

Nora: And you were getting something from it, too. Like what did that give you that the rest of your life just was lacking? 

Busy: Well, I mean, I think validation, obviously, and like I feel like my other superpower is exceeding expectations. I'm just very used to walking into any given situation and knowing what the people on the other side are expecting, or think they're going to get, and then I fucking love it more than anything when I get to surprise them.

In terms of putting myself out there in such, like, a really vulnerable true way — and by the way, at no time was I talking about my husband, at no time was I talking about what we were going through. And that's the thing that was always so interesting to me was that people who are like, “There's no one realer around.” And I was like, well I mean… what you're seeing and what you're getting like is definitely accurate to that, but it's not everything.

STARS! They’re just like us! Nothing is JUST what we post on the internet. We can post the truth, but it’s never the WHOLE ENTIRE TRUTH. 

And even though Busy loves doing these stories, even though they’re helping her feel like herself again… she knows that not everyone sees them the way she does. Because part of the snobbery around her Instagram stories is that she shouldn’t NEED to do them! Especially the sponsored content! Isn’t she a famous actress? But — as she put in her stories — one year she made more on Instagram than she did acting. 

So now — in 2020 — there is not a single celebrity who DOESN’T use their stories to just post about their day and their lives or take brand promotions. But it wasn’t like that in 2017.

Busy: It was when The New Yorker called and Marissa Meltzer wanted to interview me and I at first thought it was going to be like a joke. Like my first thought was that it was going to be like a piece where it makes fun of me, you know. And that was like the very last piece of that thing that I had allowed to infiltrate me, starting with the “Blades of Glory” situation and then continuing like sort of through a lot of my marriage, in the sense of my doubting my own instincts and abilities creatively. And we sat down to lunch, I gotta be honest with you. Like, I kind of thought that this was gonna be, “Can I ask you why you're doing this? Why or why did you want to write this article?” And she explained it to me and she was like, “Well, you know, with all of these new social media applications that are coming out, like there's always like an early adopter that sort of sets the tone for what the best use of that thing is. And you're that for Instagram stories, like you did that.” I was like, what do you... what? And she's like, “Well, you were the one that did that. Like, you're the one that that sort of did it. And then everybody else who, like, has done it since is doing what you started to do.” You know, people didn't know how to use it.

And then I was like, “Wait. You're fuckin right, dude!” Like I was really excited, you know. It was so validating. And then, and it and it sort of stripped away that last bit of residual thing that I had held onto you for so long, that my ideas could never be good enough, that I shouldn't trust myself. That I should second guess myself because, you know, the boys probably had a better idea of, well, what what what to do. And... fuck those boys.

We get a few moments like this in a lifetime — moments where we get the briefest glimpse of ourselves through someone else’s eyes, a sparkling kind of clarity that is the emotional equivalent of those videos where someone power washes decades of gunk off a deck and suddenly oh my god, this house is a real nice place! 

It feels like this is that kind of moment for Busy. A moment for her to see she’s not a joke, she’s not a doofus. She’s weird and wonderful, like she always was.

These instagram stories are a big shift for Busy and her career, which is now less about being paid to pretend to be someone else and now, being paid to be herself. These Instagram stories led to a book deal for her memoir, where she told the stories we skimmed through in this episode in much greater detail. The story of “Blades of Glory” — for which she now DOES have a story credit — of her assault and abortion, of having that emotional affair and growing apart from her husband and then back together with him. About realizing what the next step was for her.  

Busy: Like it just was so clear to me that what I needed to do then was a late night talk show. It's a space that women so few and far between get any opportunity in. And, you know, when they do, it's normally very short-lived and/or one night a week. You know what I mean? And I was sort of like, I don't know. I feel like especially with Twitter, you hear opening monologue jokes all day long. You know, you're reading them all day long on Twitter. I wanted to do something that would be enjoyable for people to watch at the end of the day. And I had called Tina Fey because she had wanted to work with me again after we had done a pilot together that didn't go, a scripted show. And they had asked me, Little Stranger, her company, and said, “What do you want to do? We want to help you, whatever it is that you want to do.” And I was like, this is what I want to do. 

Busy pitches her idea for a show to her agents, and they don’t really get it, but she stays firm in her idea. And a week later, someone from Tina Fey’s production company calls Busy.

Busy: And he's like, “Uh, Tina, I think just sold your show on the phone with E!” I was like, what? And sure enough, like, she was on a call, what are you guys looking for? And then they were like, you know what? We'd really like us to get back into a late night space since we lost Chelsea Handler, like we haven't really been able to try to figure out what that is. And Tina was like, “Oh, well, I have that. I actually... that's a thing I have. It's Busy Philipps, and it's her late night talk show.” And they're like, yes, let's do it. 

I mean, it was like... you couldn't have asked for a better sort of entrance into the thing. And I was at this point, let's just say high on the conviction of my abilities to make things fucking happen. I was just, like, stomped in there. Like, there's nothing you can do or say to me. I know exactly what this needs to be. 

What it needed to be was the kind of space that she had been craving for herself. A place that was centered around women, a place where people who feel like or have been made to feel like outsiders could get inside.

The show is called “Busy Tonight,” and it’s staffed by nearly all women. Busy convinces Caissie St. Onge from David Letterman to move from New York to L.A. to work with her, and together they create a team that reflects what they want their industry to be like, not what it IS like. 

The accelerant for her early career was revenge — which got her where she wanted to go, but didn’t keep her happy. Instagram stories gave her a nice distraction, but the long-term fuel source for her now is her weirdness and her commitment to making space for more people up near the top with her. 

Busy: A lot of times they didn't necessarily have, like, the title in their resumé, and our feeling was, is this brain surgery? Yes or no? Can this woman Jasmine, who's been on another show for, you know, years as an associate be a producer? Yeah, she can fucking figure it out. I'm pretty sure. She's enthusiastic. She's so fun. I love her energy. Yes. Let's do it.

Nora: And you are giving women, like, the chance to do what men do all the time which is like to, like, live into your potential, not prove it and then get it.

Busy: Correct. And I, you know, felt like I have watched so many moderately talented men continue to be given shot after shot after shot, and these women were all incredibly dynamic that we were talking to, and really talented, and maybe they didn't have it on their resumé, but maybe they didn't have it on their resumé because, you know, the guy named Josh hired the guy named Adam, who he knew from his friend named Jim at Harvard. And like, that's why this fucking system sucks, you know?

I like had built it from the ground up. I loved my team. They were my family. We put everything into it. We had so much joy. We were all women. We were like encouraging each other every day. It felt so wonderful, even when it was hard. It was like, this is nowhere else I would rather be. And so then here's the thing. These things suck.

These things suck, as in, the show was not renewed after 104 episodes. It was basically canceled.

Busy: I think that going into it with that obscene confidence in myself at that moment was the only way Casey and I got what we got accomplished. And ultimately, I'm like, super proud that we had women who were able to join the WGA after starting out as researchers on our show like, you know, an assistant on our show. And I think ultimately we ended with a show that was incredibly creatively and culturally successful. And whether or not it fit into whatever the E! network is, or what cable television is, or what entertainment is at this point, doesn't really matter to me. 

It did matter, though. It felt like shit. A year after the show was canceled, Busy shared a photo on Instagram of this text she sent to the network executive who hadn’t bothered to call and tell her about the show not being renewed.

The exchange ended with her telling this guy he was bad at his job. That was the last time they talked. It’s the kind of text you always want to send when someone betrays you, ticks you off, pushes you down. The kind of text most of us don’t send and definitely don’t post on Instagram later. Or the kind we do send and then just delete from our phones and pretend never happened. The kind of text women aren’t supposed to send because we’re just supposed to be grateful and happy to be there and be gracious and count our blessings but guess what? STARS ARE REALLY JUST LIKE US! Fame doesn’t insulate you from gender dynamics or power dynamics!

What we consider strong and assertive in men, we easily dismiss as petty or immature in women. And yes, the risk is easier to take when you’re financially secure, and also, for all of us, life follows really similar arcs. Life is sometimes very good, sometimes not good, then good again and bad again, and on and on and on.

What Busy’s mom told her as a kid, that someday she’d find her place, her people? It’s something we all need reminding of. Because sometimes people TAKE our place! Our people get pushed around or pushed out!

We need reminding that our weirdness has a place, that where we are now is not where we’ll always be… whether we’re happy or sad, at the bottom or the top. It’s all temporary. 

Busy: I was that weirdo kid. Right? I have a kid that's like that, too. Who is just kind of like different than some other kids, you know. And I think the magic of how those people turn out is knowing that there is more out there. Your life is, like, going to be so much greater. And you're going to have so many more experiences. And some of them will be way worse. And some of them will be so infinitely incredible. You can't even possibly imagine. 

Busy: I am working now so hard on being kinder to myself and letting myself off the hook a little bit for some things, you know? And especially when I feel like... I get very hard on myself. And that's the thing with my book. That's the thing about posting that text message. That's the thing about the way that I am. I think the person that I'm hardest on in my book is myself. I really do, because I am. I'm so hard on myself all the time. So I'm trying to, like, find a way to do my best and then acknowledge that, like, hey, that's your best. That's that's OK, dude. Like, you're doing fine. You know? And also not but also not losing the perspective of like… just because it's your best, like if it's unacceptable to someone else, you have to own that and apologize. And you can do your best. But if your best isn't good enough, and you end up hurting others, then you have to do better. 

This has been “Terrible, Thanks for Asking.” I’m Nora McInerny. Our production team is Marcel Malekebu, Jeyca Maldonado-Medina, Hannah Meacock Ross, Jordan Turgeon, Phyllis Fletcher… I think that’s everybody.

You can listen to Busy’s podcast, “Busy Philipps Is Doing Her Best,” wherever you find podcasts. I highly recommend her memoir. I read a lot of memoirs. I read a lot of memoirs. This Will Only Hurt A Little is beautiful. I bought it to read with paper, but then I also listened to the audio and I bawled listening to her tell some of these stories. So good. Such a good, such a good audiobook reader. Busy, if you need a compliment, I hope you just keep that one in your pocket for the future.

Our theme music is by Geoffrey Lamar Wilson. Find us at TTFAmerch.com, okay? Go buy yourself some TTFA merch. Thank you for listening to this podcast. Thank you for supporting it. There are all kinds of ways to support our podcast, by the way. Listening to it? That is supporting it. Sharing it with a friend? That is supporting it. Leaving a review? That is supporting it. Unless your review is one of the ones that says that you hate my voice and my face. In which case, join the club, okay? Join the club. And also kids, there are better ways to get my attention. Just kidding. I don’t think my kids have reviewed the podcast yet, but I would not read it if they did. It would make me highly uncomfortable.

Uh, okay, bye!